Both Sides of the Stethoscope featuring Alan Feren MD, FACS

Dr. Alan Feren is a former MD who is now practicing as an Independent Patient Advocate. In this episode, Dr. Feren shares his long and impressive journey of perseverance, integrity, and advocacy. As a general surgeon, Dr. Feren was always an advocate for his patients. He took on the tough cases that nobody else wanted to touch. His approach from day one has been to demystify medical jargon, making information accessible and comprehensible for patients and their families.

After 12 years practicing general surgery, Dr. Feren became Patient Feren. He underwent spinal surgery that failed, leaving him in a body cast for a full year. He was forced to pivot from practicing surgery and was recruited to write actuarial guidelines for an HMO. He refers to his HMO consultancy as working for the dark side, although he eventually became medical director. Another health condition- this time a heart condition requiring coronary bypass- was the impetus for his next series of career changes. Dr. Feren became a lifestyle consultant, then moved on to risk mitigation, and patient engagement and empowerment. He worked for private equity startups and ultimately became an Independent Patient Advocate during the Covid pandemic. 

This is an in-depth and candid discussion with an esteemed physician who became a passionate and life-saving advocate. You’ll hear about Dr. Feren’s service as an Air Force surgeon, his opinions on the difference between quality medical information websites and “Dr. Google,” and how he approaches his role as an advocate and the fine line he must walk. Dr. Feren advocates for informed, empowered patients who actively participate in their healthcare decisions, embodying the critical intersection of medicine, advocacy, and compassion in patient care.

This podcast reveals the unlimited potential for Independent Patient Advocacy and the opportunities available for physicians to use their unsurpassed knowledge of the medical system to help those who are struggling within it. 

Transcript

Host 

Alan Farren, thank you for joining us on the Patient Advocacy Now podcast. I'm excited to discuss your kind of experience as an advocate. You are the first MD that we've had on the show. And I think there's a wealth of information that you can kind of share from a doctor's perspective of how to deal with the hospital system, I'm sure. How you feeling today? How you doing?

Alan Feren 

I'm doing great and I'm happy to participate in this being one of the odd ducks that didn't hang up my spurs immediately after quitting clinical practice.

Host 

Tell me about your first experience being an advocate. I know we shared before we were on the air a little bit about when you were in medical school, how it came up for family.

Alan Feren 

Sure. I have basically always been an advocate. And when you get into medical school, your family thinks you're already a doctor. So why not ask questions? I think the first major issue was my father, who was to undergo a bypass graft, coronary artery bypass.

And I spoke with him and I asked, had he spoken with the doctor and was the doctor going to see him preoperatively, which is typically the standard, to go over everything because it's a pretty big operation. And he said, well, the doctor wasn't going to see him before the surgery, but he's a really good doctor. Turned out to be the chief of surgery, diuretic thoracic surgery, at this institution, which will remain unnamed.

And being kind of a bold and assertive young, idealistic medical students, I got on the phone and I asked to speak with this cardiothoracic surgeon. And I asked him why he was that I understood that he was not going to see my dad preoperatively and thought that that was really not a great idea. I said, you know, you're responsible for his life. This is kind of a life.

a saving type of surgery that has a lot of possible complications, including death and stroke, et cetera. And I was pretty forceful. There really wasn't much I could do because I was about 2000 miles away, but he ended up seeing my dad. And I realized how important it was for patients to interface.

with their physicians and understand the goals and risks and alternatives from the person who is going to be responsible for their life. And I've carried that really through my years as a resident. When I was a chief resident, I had a my chief who did not want to talk with patients. I was assigned to do those conversations because I did.

Alan Feren 

a lot of head and neck cancer, these were pretty serious procedures with significant implications. And I ended up learning to be able to speak with these patients' families. They, of course, wanted to know, well, what about Dr. So -and -so who did the surgery? And I would say that I was there assisting him. But in most cases, by the time I was a chief, I was the one doing the procedures. But...

It was important for me to be able to learn to speak with them in a way that they could understand it. So I had to kind of abandon the typical doctor speak and break things down into ways that they could understand and be as optimistic as I could, but also open and honest about what was done and prognosis.

So, I've carried that through.

Host 

Why do some doctors and surgeons have this aversion with talking and interfacing with patients, do you think?

Alan Feren 

I can't speak for others, John. I think it's a valid and important question. Some do it because if the news is bad, they don't want to be the bearer of bad news. Some feel that others can do it. It's not important. They've done the seminal work. They've done...

the patchwork, the surgery or whatever to make someone better. But you'd have to ask the individuals that really don't want to or are not doing it as to their rationale.

Host 

So it sounds like there's, you know, an emotional response of some sort there that where there might be some kind of block, who knows. In addition to just feeling comforted by talking to the doctor, in your case as a physician and even in your dad's case, as an example, are there actual hard data that they feel like they got if they weren't otherwise to talk to their doctor instead of just feeling, or in addition, I should say to feeling emotionally supported.

Alan Feren 

I've not seen data on that. I think a lot of it is anecdotal at this point, but I suspect that there is a substantial number. I don't think that I would want to guess as to what that number would be, but I think.

Host 

Well, yeah, I mean, I'm not, I'm just asking in your own personal experience. Do you find when you talk to the patients, you're able to convey information they otherwise didn't have when you were a physician or that you got something from them that you prior did not have?

Alan Feren 

As far as the latter, I would say at least for me, there's very little information that I would not have before operating on a patient. And for me also, the most important thing for my patients to know was that I really cared for them and about them. And that meant that I was going to be with them through thick and thin. So that, God forbid, if there was a complication, they need to know that I was going to be there.

to correct it. And I had a number of complications, not many, but I recall each one of them. And patients knew that I was going to be there to rectify whatever the problem was or to help mitigate whatever issues might be of a permanent nature.

Host 

And when you ran your practice and you were working with other physicians, did you find that you kind of encouraged others around you to kind of have this approach?

Alan Feren 

I think people sent me patients because of that approach. So.

Host 

Did they give you the difficult ones they didn't want to talk to?

Alan Feren 

I did get the difficult ones. And when I came out of training out of the university program, I was one of the first to stay in that community. And so they thought, well, here's the hotshot university trained surgeon that sent him the tough cases and I got them. So.

Host 

And is there a line, speaking of tough patients, not just tough medically, but maybe tough to deal with on the bedside. Is there, are there things you would advise patients to do or not do to kind of get into their doctors and nurses good graces while still advocating kind of assertively for themselves?

Alan Feren 

Yeah, I've written a whole bunch about how to partner with your physician. And I think, you know, like, like one of the first laws is stay away from Dr. Google. I think that's some good advice. I think looking at websites that have really good information is very important. So go on the Mayo Clinic, the Cleveland Clinic, the NIH sites.

you can get some very good information. Self -diagnosis is not always helpful, but I think being empowered to know what, once you have a diagnosis, what alternatives may be available to you is very worthwhile. But there are, I don't know what the latest is, but you know, 30, 40 ,000 medical websites and many of which are not valid.

So you have to go to credible websites to get the information. And I think that's very important.

Host 

Yeah. And with the advent of AI, people are going to just start asking chat GPT to diagnose them. Instead of going to Google, it's going to be a bit of a strange time for sure.

Alan Feren 

Yeah, exactly.

Host 

Well, in addition to being a kind of a storied physician yourself, you also were a patient in many different circumstances that kind of gave you both sides of the coin there in terms of experiencing the medical system. Tell us about some of the challenges and struggles you went through as a patient and how it informed you as an advocate.

Alan Feren 

Sure. Again, I want to emphasize that going, even starting in medical school, I was and continue to be an advocate.

And so people who actually said to me after going through some of the significant medical and surgical issues that I've had say, well, now you really understand. Well, I've understood from the get -go what it is, but I have even a deeper understanding having been through some of the things to which you alluded. I think one of the seminal issues that I faced was a series of failed spine surgeries.

back when I was in practice and I was still young at the time. And I ended up with a pretty major seven and a half hour surgical procedure with complications postoperatively, but spent a total of a year in a body cast and had to overcome a lot of obstacles during that time. I had hardware.

that had been placed to stabilize my spine. And I kept on letting the surgeon know that it was very uncomfortable, it was very painful. I have a very high pain threshold. And he thought, well, gee, you're just complaining, which was not true. And it turned out that the hardware had broken at three months. And at six months, I was re -operated and totally redone.

and then had a bone stimulator put in at nine months and that failed. And at a year they wanted to redo everything. And at that point I said, I need to walk away from this. That's when I had to leave my clinical practice after close to 12 years. So that's 16 years of training plus 12 years of practice and had to kind of close those doors. And...

Host 

Wow.

Alan Feren 

At that point, I started thinking about doing professional patient advocacy.

Host 

Well, before we get there, I do want to ask a little bit more about the details of your spinal issues. Were they a result of a trauma or was it a genetic kind of failing of some sort? What was the initial impetus and what went wrong?

Alan Feren 

Yeah, without getting into too much detail, there was a congenital abnormality. And from the hours bent over on long surgeries, I ended up with both disc problems and movement of the vertebrae to compress the spinal cord, which resulted on not cord, but the spinal nerves. So I had significant leg pain.

and motor weakness. So it was something that had to be done. And to replace required extensive decompression of the spinal nerves and placement of titanium screws and rods and bone grafts. It was basically from my waist to my upper chest.

Host 

Wow. And when you say full, full body cast at one point.

Host 

So did you have any mobility for that year or were you bedridden?

Alan Feren 

So that.

I was up and I walked because walking was part of the rehabilitation. But at one point I had one leg that was also included. It's called a hip spica. And that resulted in the inability to sit. So I had to stand to use the restroom. That created some very interesting times. So.

I prefer not to think or talk much about that.

Host 

Yeah, sure. I understand. Yeah. But that's, uh, just to understand the complexity. I mean, there's, there's a lot of mental kind of hoop jumping you have to go through when suddenly your life changes that, that drastically.

Alan Feren 

Yes. Yeah. And that was a major situation that created a great deal of personal stress and anxiety. Our first child was about to go off to college. The recognition that I was no longer going to work as a surgeon and have the same level of income to support that. And the second child would not be that far behind.

My wife was a mathematics teacher at that point and was very supportive. Very strong, very strong marriage to begin with and right now we're 57 years and still going strong. So it really strengthened the marriage, but we ended up having counseling, which was extremely helpful.

Host 

Now, congratulations. That's great to hear.

Alan Feren 

and learned to take each day as it came. And it allowed us for future episodes that I've subsequently had to weather through those. So it was a blessing in some respects because it allowed me to go on to many different careers that I've had since I left my surgical practice.

Host 

So take us through the journey after your surgical practice and you had these medical setbacks or maybe they weren't even necessarily setbacks, but changes in direction and you, you're kind of alluding to different careers. Tell me what happened next.

Alan Feren 

During my practice days, I had forged good relationships with particularly a cardiologist who was writing clinical guidelines for an actuarial firm and also for a consulting firm. And he would send his patients to me. I've had a lot of general surgery background as well, both in...

the before I had my four years of head and neck surgical training, I had general surgery training and then was drafted into the Air Force. I spent two years as a partially trained surgeon. That was an additional time learning general surgery because the surgeons that were there were

setting up their practice and weren't interested in doing all the cases. So I got to do a lot of the cases that they didn't want to do. So it advanced my knowledge base of general surgery, medical and surgical problems. And I was asked to write surgical guidelines for this actuarial firm and subsequently moved on to doing other.

guidelines for this major actuarial company. This was in the heyday of managed care. And we were looking at what are the most efficient ways to deliver surgical care and how many days do people need to stay in the hospital? What needs to be done day by day? And so I knew that from...

doing general surgery and I knew that because I had rotated through most of the subspecialties as well, orthopedics, neurosurgery, et cetera. So that was one of the careers. That career was interrupted by emergency coronary bypass surgery when I was 49. And I recognized that that career, which was one that involved a great deal of.

Alan Feren 

of travel, I was gone three to five days a week all over the country working with hospitals and medical groups. And I was recruited to what I call the dark side, which was a large California HMO here in Northern California. And I became the medical director for all of Northern California.

And that was when I got involved with appeals and also helping medical groups learn efficient care. And so I saw that side, the dark side, but I really, well, the dark side people have some very strong feelings about HMOs because it used to be the...

Host 

Why do you call it the dark side for people who...

Alan Feren 

the dial 1 -800 -Mother -May -I, which is still true today, where you've got to get prior authorization. Your requests for MRIs and CTs are overturned, can't get it, can't get this medicine until you try that medicine. So that was really the upshot of managed care. And so those principles still.

are adhered to today as cost saving things that are done. So people that have some resentful feelings about that type of medicine because it's, who are you, who are you making decisions about my care, you're not my doctor, what do you know? So I call it the dark side. But during.

Host 

Right.

Did you, did you enjoy working in that capacity being kind of looking under the hood and pulling the strings and kind of understanding that world?

Alan Feren 

I didn't look at it as whether I liked it or didn't like it. It was a job and I tried to do it the best I could as well as advocating for a patient. One of the stories that I like to tell, which was like the first week that I was there, there was a patient with ALS, the Lou Gehrig's disease, a myotrophic lateral sclerosis, and there was an item.

that was not approved by the medical policy. It was a type of device for cleaning your bottom, the perineum, after using the bathroom because this person had weakness of the extremities and was not able to use it very effectively. But to take care of himself without that device, it had water, like a bidet type of thing.

It was a $250 piece of equipment and medical policy did not approve it. I got a call from the broker, insurance broker saying, gee, Dr. Farron, I have this patient and this piece of equipment has been denied. He really can't afford it. Is there something you can do? I looked at this in a humanistic way and thought, gee, this is $250. It's really not that much money.

It's a young man in his 40s. He's going to have a terrible life ahead of him. If he doesn't have it, he's going to have skin breakdown, end up going to the hospital. He may need surgery to de -breed the ulcer that ultimately is going to result from that. Hospital stay would be at least $1 ,000 a day, plus whatever the cost of the surgeon, anesthesia, being in the hospital, maybe.

coming down with a hospital -acquired infection, for $250, you can avoid all of that. And so I overturned medical policy. And the chief medical officer stormed down to my office and just kind of read me the riot act and said, you can't do this. And I said, I can. And these are the reasons why. And...

Host 

I mean, even from a dollars and cents perspective, it was, you know, Pennywise pound foolish. And you were able to point it out.

Alan Feren 

Oh, it was more than. Oh, absolutely. So when you can have a win like that, you feel good about the decision. I did not have a good relationship with the chief medical officer for the five years that I was there, but I know in my heart I made the right decision for myself and most importantly, for that patient and his family.

Host 

for you.

Alan Feren 

Yeah. And so after that, I decided that I was through with medical management and went out on my own as an independent consultant and then hooked up with a hospital system that had a lifestyle component to it.

having gone through personally heart surgery and knowing the importance of lifestyle. And I became the chief medical officer that combined both an insurance product and lifestyle management and taught coaches who were allied healthcare professionals like a diabetic educator at RN.

a kinesiologist and physical therapist to work with people to set achievable goals. They would take a health risk assessment and we would identify what were the areas that someone could improve, could be diet, could be nutrition, could be exercise. And we could show how mitigating those risks reduce medical costs.

So I did that for a number of years and then was recruited to work with a series of medical software companies that focused on patient engagement and patient empowerment. And because I've had more surgeries than I in medical issues and I care to talk about, I know what the patient experience is. And I created.

clinical content in a literacy level that's appropriate for most patients, which actually is in the fifth and sixth grade level, but in understandable terms so that they could know when things were going off the rails, where their recovery was not following an optimal path. And so these are two companies. I worked four years at each of them.

Host 

Mm -hmm.

Alan Feren 

And at that point, I decided that I was no longer going to, excuse me, work with them. They were both bought and sold. And I decided not to work with a large company. These were startups. So it was fun, fast moving. We did a lot of work around COVID. And that was fun and interesting for me.

Host 

Yeah.

Host 

And it sounds like that's what led you to my personal advocate, which is your your current consultancy kind of practice you have today, correct? So tell me about what makes this practice so different and so interesting.

Alan Feren 

Correct, right. So people.

Go ahead.

Alan Feren 

So as in the title, when we say it's my personal advocate, it is very personal. Obviously, advocacy is of a personal nature. But I feel that I can now go full circle. I talk about having experience on both sides of the stethoscope. So it's a dual perspective. And not only from a very...

strong medical background, but a very full patient experience that I really understand that patient experience, the anxiety, what it means. I can bring the tools that I used as a physician in terms of talking with patients in a way that they can understand. I have the medical knowledge.

in many areas, not all, because I do say to people that there are some areas that I really will not venture into. I can offer some help just from a kind of a 5 ,000 foot level, but not on the ground.

Cancer is one where I can give some general ideas, but oncology is such a broad area. There's so many different cancers that it's very difficult to be involved with. I had a request the other day on my personal advocate for IVF. I stay away from that. That's something I just don't have a strong background. I do end of life work because I've had specialized end of life training and I've sat with people who are dying.

I've sat with families. I've consulted patients who are in their hospice and last days. It's not a preference I have.

Host 

What kind of questions and what kind of work do you do with that population? Just as an example to let the listeners know kind of what exactly, because patient advocacy is so, it's such a broad spectrum that kind of understanding where you fit in and what you view your role as is a good.

Alan Feren 

Right. So one of the most important things with patients who are dying, I think one of the biggest issues that comes up are family issues, where one says, we've got to do this, we've got to do that. And the other one says, no, I don't think we want to do that.

And one of the things that I emphasize is what is it that the person who's dying, what are their wishes? And it's so important to adhere to those wishes. That's the most important issue. And then point out, you know, having gone through this with both my parents and also my wife's parents, the Alzheimer issue.

was a very tough issue. And when helping people understand what the stages are going to be and what to expect. And there's a lot of, you know, anger. There's the, you know, the stages of grief that are well regarded in terms of anger and denial before you get way, way down to acceptance.

So helping people understand what someone is going through and also identifying what are the resources that are available to help them through and point out where additional resources may be brought in for comfort purposes.

So those are things. It's just so individual. It's hard to characterize and classify all the various combinations and permutations that come up.

Host 

Absolutely. I do know of a story involving you though, where as opposed to end of life, you were saving a life, even just on the phone. You want to tell us about this story of this young husband who called in a panic and first of all, how he found you and how you helped them.

Alan Feren 

Sure. Well, I have a nice relationship with Greater National Advocates and Brad has been a very strong supporter. I was driving somewhere, I don't recall where, with my wife and Brad called me and said, I have a young man who I think needs your help and would you be willing to help him? I said, absolutely.

And this young man was kind of an extremist because he had a wife who was hospitalized with sepsis, which is an infection that involves the body. It's what we would call a systemic infection, involves all the systems. So she had a very high fever, had just recently given birth, was breastfeeding, had fever and shaking chills, also had some...

not delirium, but was really not totally with it. The young man didn't know what was going on, could not get any information from the nursing staff or the doctors every time he went there. He was extremely frustrated. So I asked him questions about his wife and I said, did she have any infection that you were aware of? And he said, well, she was breastfeeding and had some tenderness and redness around the breast.

And I suspected that this was probably what's called mastitis, which is an inflammation of the breast. I know about this not because I've ever breastfed, but because my wife had this. And so I've been through this with her. Unfortunately, she was not hospitalized for this, but I knew what the treatment was and both as an inpatient.

having seen it on the medical side, but also on the home front and knew what to anticipate and what to tell him for post -hospital care. I said, have you spoken with your mother's OB -GYN, who was the person that delivered the baby? He said, no. I said, well, that would be the first person that you might call to get the best information.

Alan Feren 

And if that person hasn't seen your mother, your wife, then it would be best to make sure that he or she has, and you'll get the best information. And in the meantime, see if you can get any further information from the nursing staff. Also ask the following, what is the blood count?

Host 

Wife, yeah.

Alan Feren 

Have they done blood cultures? Have they done a urine culture? Have they looked at other possible areas of infection? So he went armed with that information. Fortunately, was able to get a hold of the OB -GYN doctor who then confirmed the diagnosis of mastitis. She was on intravenous antibiotics because of.

the systemic nature of the infection. And I advised him that when she got home to apply heat to the affected breast, the baby still could breastfeed, that's okay. I asked him to ask about the antibiotic and if the antibiotic transferred in the mother's milk to the baby, because you're going to want to know that information.

And later that day, I got a phone call from him saying that he was very grateful that he got me information and it was very helpful. Not to my knowledge, initially he had called Brad to thank him for the referral. And Brad nicely sent me an email letting me know that this young man was very grateful for the services.

So that's really kind of a typical way that I would work with patients. I like to have a phone call initially to know 15 minutes or so about whether or not I can help a person. I think one of the most important things about being a patient advocate and as a physician is to know what you know and know what you don't know.

Host 

It's amazing. Yeah.

Alan Feren 

And I will be the first person to say something that I may not be able to help you with, or here's something that you may want to consider, or here is a resource that you might consider because I don't think that I am the right person to do this with you. If I see that I can help them right away, we convert that to a 45 -minute to an hour Zoom discussion.

And I usually follow that up with an email going over what we discussed and kind of what my recommendations are. It's no different than when I was in practice because after my intake with someone, I would have a little piece of paper, had a diagram of usually the head and neck and other areas that I may have discussed. And I...

would write down the diagnosis and I would write down these are my recommendations and this is my follow up for you and I'll see you in three weeks, five weeks. Call me if there's a particular problem. So people walked away with something in their hand. Today you get that with your after visit summary with electronic medical records. So it's the same kind of concept that I follow through.

Host 

Sure.

Host 

Well, that kind of brings me to an interesting question, which is, you know, because of the advent of telehealth and zoom, do you have geographic limitations or do you find yourself working with people all over the country?

Alan Feren 

I have no geographic limitations. I do find that the majority come to me from California. And that's fine. And I think that, you know, you're helping people one at a time so that it's really doesn't matter. But I'll tell you that medicine is universal. Medicine is maybe practiced a little differently in different parts of the country.

but an infection is an infection and an antibiotic is an antibiotic. And the type of resources that typically would be used are pretty standard. Availability obviously may differ.

Host 

And are there, and you know, as an MD it's interesting, cause again, being the first one on the show, where's the clinical line? Where, you know, it seems like you have more kind of, it's a bit more of a minefield for you to kind of walk around in as an advocate than it might be for someone who just does insurance or who's just a, you know,

A survivor support type of advocate who's just there because they've been through it themselves.

Alan Feren 

Yeah, the line is really, it's a tightrope and it's a thin line, but I really cannot practice medicine and my malpractice insurance prevents me from practicing medicine. And so the way I kind of move around this somewhat conundrum,

is I don't say this is what you should have. I say you may want to ask your doctor about, or you might want to consider. So some of the typical things that I would do are give patients questions to ask their doctor. And those questions will drive what it is that I am asking the doctor to do for them. I do not speak with their doctor.

Host 

Mm -hmm.

Alan Feren 

I do not negotiate insurance rates or coverage rates, but I will tell someone, for example, if they are having to pay out of pocket for, let's say, a diagnostic imaging study, classically a magnetic resonance imaging MRI or CT computerized tomography, I'd say, well, there's two different rates.

There's the rate that they want you to pay out of pocket and there's a negotiated rate that they have with insurance companies. You should not pay more than that rate. And so you can go in and tell them you want to pay the negotiated insurance rate. And that's the savings of hundreds of dollars for them.

Host 

Yeah. Great advice. And I like, I like the consultive approach and, and, um, and, and knowing kind of your lane, I think that's important in any field. Um, what do you feel about the whole industry and, uh, of advocacy as it's emerging? Are you, are you excited to see where it goes? Do you think more, uh, retired or semi -retired physicians should start getting involved in this practice? And.

And where do you see a company like GNA fitting into the puzzle?

Alan Feren 

I am excited about the prospects of patient advocacy. It's very needed because number one, medicine has become more of a volume type industry production with 10 minutes for follow -up appointments, 15 minutes, 20 minutes for initial.

appointments, physicians are really just don't have the time to spend. And that's why we're seeing the growth of concierge medicine. Doctors really want to do a good job, but you can't in 10 or 15 minutes. And as people get older, they have four, five, six comorbid conditions. And even though they're coming with a problem that does not necessarily

involved the other three, four, or five. But let's take, for example, a diabetic. But you're coming in with high blood pressure, and that's very common, particularly as you get older and people. And so you get your blood pressure taken and you have a discussion about that. But maybe this person hasn't had their diabetic eye exam in over a year, or maybe they haven't had their feet checked for diabetic ulcers.

or maybe their blood sugar is not under control and they haven't had their diabetic A1C done. And so you have a doctor who wants to do a good job is controlling and making sure the blood pressure is under control. What about the rest of the person? So it's not a good holistic way with patient advocacy. You are empowering patients so that in that 10 or 15 minute visit,

that patient will come in and say, okay, doctor, you got my blood pressure now under control, but what about my diabetes? So you're empowering people for self -care, which I think is really very important. And that goes back to all my years around lifestyle management. The bottom line for me always is, this is your body, it's the only one you get this time around.

Alan Feren 

And you really need to know what it is. You know, I think it's important when you are in a situation where you feel you're being gaslit by your doctor, who's kind of ignoring your signs or symptoms or minimizing them, saying, you know, I am the expert of my body, something is wrong, and help me figure out what's going on so we can do something about it.

So these are important things. And I think that patient care advocates are able to really be there for patients, help them become empowered, get them engaged in their care, and fill in that gap from the physician when they leave the office, when they leave the hospital or the ambulatory surgery center so that they know how to take care of themselves.

in the best way that they can. It's a very valuable service. And I think GNA, I hope, becomes even more well known because it's a place where you can find advocates that have expertise in areas that they specialize in. I am more of a generalist, but with a deeper knowledge and insight.

than most because of my experiences. I didn't go into patient advocacy because I had a brother or a sister or a wife who had a problem and I realized that there's a need for it. I've done it all my life from as a professional, starting from my years in medical school all the way through years of training, practice.

and other experiences, particularly those related to being a patient.

Host 

Thank you so much for all of these amazing insights and going over your history. If someone wants to work with you directly, what is the website where they can go and find my personal advocate?

Alan Feren 

Yeah, just plug in mypersonaladvocate .net. And there's a little box there to click and I'll be very happy to help you in any way that I can.

Host 

Alan Farren, thank you so much for being on the show.

Alan Feren 

John, thank you for inviting me. I appreciate the opportunity. And we hope that GNA just continues to grow and flourish.